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I have not lost my freedom to: live where I can afford to, buy what I can afford, move about the country without facing border guards at every state line, I can attend any educational center that I am qualified for and can afford, I can have, do, be whatever I want within legal boundaries, I can say anything I want (I would like to use some stronger words on disqus sometimes in reply to idiots, but I have been told that is a no-no so as not to offend others who have a cleaner mouth) I can say mean things and tell lies and half-truths and denigrate the character of my president and his wife if I choose, I can write, call and email my State and Federal representatives, I can ..............................
GET THE PICTURE YET? So, what freedoms have I started to lose?
The freedom to believe as I please? Not yet. The freedom to write ignorant letters to my local newspaper and see the absurd statements I write in actual print? Not yet.
Tell me specifically what freedoms I'm going to lose, as I am beginning to wonder where in hell your country is that you fear losing yours.
Your right to vote in secrecy is being challenged. The left wants votes on whether a labor group should unionize to be made public so that those voting improperly (against the union) can be punished. I dare say that if they succeed in making votes for unionization public, then votes for representatives will be the next agenda item. You voted for McCain? Time for your punishment. Obama has already hinted at this when he says "we know who they are, we're sending people door to door." This is especially frightening considering how the left is funneling money into vote-fixing groups such as Acorn. They will be the goon squad coming after you for disobeying.
The states are continually losing their sovereignty. Where does the federal government get the right to "fix" health care? Why does Obama assume the right to say what salary a teacher should earn? Why should the feds stop Arizona and other states from efforts to curb illegal immigration?
We have a federal government that releases reports telling law enforcement to watch out for people flying Gadsden Flags or attending TEA party rallies saying they're probably terrorists. We're losing the right to vote on representatives altogether, the executive branch is busy naming czars for everything under the sun. This is not the type of government authorized by the Constitution! Yes, it's not new with this administration, both parties are guilty. That doesn't change the fact that it's an extremely disturbing issue.
Things are so bad that we're even losing our credit lines. Obama's attempt to make credit cards fair has resulted in most of us seeing rates fly up to the tens or twenties for interest rates. I've heard of cards going as high as 29.9% for people who always pay their bills on time! Government mandates led to this! Just wait till you see what happens to your health care costs once that is made "fair". Freedom? Freedom to suffer, certainly. The free market is at end.
If you think you control your own health care now, then you are fooling yourself.
This reminds me of auto insurance. Remember not so long ago when MA tried to do the same thing with auto insurance policies? It was a disaster. Your "options" all looked pretty much the same. They were expensive and there were endless complaints about it. The responsible drivers got nailed by the irresponsible. They had to carry the costs of everyone else. It was so bad that the state gave up. And yet, we think the same thing can work at a national level with something as vital as health care?
It doesn't work. Nationalization doesn't equal choice. It's the end of choice. The government will strangle the private options, that by law, MUST conform to the new unspoken government standards. Meanwhile the tax backed public option will undercut them. It will push employers to drop the more expensive private plan. The workers will end up demanding it as well when they see their benefit taxed under the new plan. The bill does everything it can to discourage private plans.
Why else would the bill demand that existing policies be given only so many years grandfathering before they must become government plans? The whole point is to kill private insurance. The whole point is to kill the ability of individuals and companies to choose a plan that works best for them.
You are probably, for the most part, a relatively decent man. I don't know you, would prefer not to as I think we have only the fact we both require bathroom facilities as a common ground, but you have to be one really difficult person to like. Your paranoia, your biased, narrow vision of right and wrong, you short supply of compassion and empathy just turn me off no end.
If you are losing your freedoms, sorry about that Jack, as I have mine and don't give a tinker's dam about yours. Not if those freedoms are on your terms and what you define as freedoms.
Stick a sock in it, man.
"If you are losing your freedoms, sorry about that Jack, as I have mine and don't give a tinker's dam about yours." That's funny, since I've heard many times now that I only care about myself. That's basically what you're saying to back up your position. I have mine, you go to hell. But see, my position isn't that. My position is that I have mine, and you have yours. I'll leave yours alone if you'll leave mine alone. That's the way it should be. I'm not entitled to your wealth merely because you have it. Everyone should earn their own. That's fair, that's equal, that's right. As long as you continue to demand that which isn't yours, I will continue to defy you.
*******
You think that you are the only person alive who has had to work for what they get. You believe that anyone who isn't with you is against you and that you alone take personal responsibility for yourself, work to get what you want and need, and that anyone who is even remotely liberal or Democratic has somehow gotten what they have by illegal means or by sponging off people like you.
You wrote: " No matter how much people like myself pay in taxes, it will never be enough. You will always demand more and scorn us for the decreasing amount we get to keep."
I've worked a major part of my adult life, even when I had a husband whose job was good enough to support his family without my working. We have always paid taxes and I still pay them. I rarely have a year where the IRS isn't cashing my check. I pay a whopping property tax in this state. I
Your problem is that you think as a conservative YOU are the only person who pays taxes, pays for things that the government says you must, and that the rest (liberals and Democrats) take all that you pay and go have drunken orgies with it. You never consider the fact that almost anyone with any income at all pays taxes in one way or another, if they live in a state that has a state tax they pay and pay and pay. I pay the state of NH every damn year for what I have that comes from another state. If you don't pay, and you have income outside of NH, you are ripping the state off.
You and your ilk always think that YOU are the ones who do all the heavy lifting in this country. You would rather sleep with a timber rattler than admit that EVERYONE regardless of their politics pays into the system in some way or other, regardless of how little or how much. Hell, even the panhandler who takes your quarter to go buy coffee in a state with a tax has to pay.
You wallow in your self-pity, your condemnation of those who anger you because they get something you don't want them to have because YOU EARNED YOURS by the sweat of your brow. Well, Bubba, most of us have sweaty brows and we are self-reliant, self-respecting, self-responsible people even if we are Democrats, liberals, bleeding hearts or whatever words that, coming from your mouth, are meant to insult and denigrate and make us "the other" "less than you" 'unworthy".
TS.
Regardless of how little or how much? That's precisely the point, my dear. I take offense at being forced to pay more so that others don't have to. I am nobody's slave.
The top five percent of earners pay half the country's income tax. The bottom forty percent pay nothing. That's not fair and equitable, that is a tragedy. Forty percent of the population can't be bothered to do their part. They expect others to carry their weight.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/stateme...
The pan handler pays a tax on a cup of coffee? Well! That's certainly going to pay for his heart transplant, or his gastric bypass, or his sex change operation. He's doing his part! He paid a nickle into the system on a cup of coffee!
Don't you find that at all absurd? You can't fund a health care system that way. YOU must cover YOUR burden. I will cover MINE. That's how it should be. Yes, I will absolutely condemn anyone who stakes a claim on another's wealth simply because that other has it. It's wrong. It's absurd. It's abhorrent.
Save the ridiculous argument about people with disabilities. It's not the case that forty percent of the population is so disabled that they cannot contribute their share. This is the undoing of democracy. People are voting themselves freebies. It can not be sustained.
Your participation in a health insurance plan that can at any time cut
you off means I'll have to have the cost of your emergency care added
to my bill. This it the moral imperative, we have to stop insurance
companies from taking money when the person's well and refusing to pay
when they aren't.
you're joking? you think you're on the good guy's side?
because you could sue?
hahahahahahaha oh man, you ARE the joke.
For a sense of what those specious figures really mean, you need to look at this:
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2908
Economists, even, are sounding the alarm over the unprecedented and growing income gap among those who DO work.
Then among your infamous "bottom 40%" are these. Go figure.
http://www.progress.org/corp12.htm
Now, are you going to try being a little realistic for a change? Tell me honestly, where is the greater disparity? Between tax levels? Or income levels?
Your second link shows how it arguably should be. We shouldn't be taxing industry. That's where are jobs come from which feeds into our income taxes (we all pay federal, if not state as well) and into our sales and property taxes, and all the other various fees, surcharges, tariffs and what not. Isn't it repugnant that your employer would be taxed for earning revenue, then you'd be taxed on the same money as it becomes your wages, then taxed again when you purchase something (if you make the mistake of buying something in a sales tax state), then taxed again if you own property or indirectly if you pay rent. It's maddening. Taxes, taxes, taxes. Pretty soon we'll pay taxes on our taxes, with fees, and a surcharge if we want to pay with plastic. Again, you assert that you're somehow entitled to corporations' money. You want some of that money? Buy stock. Get a job there. Don't say they owe you just because they exist. It's a lie.
worst SC decisions ever), and if they make income, then they are subject to
income tax like anyone else! All the more so given the VASTLY greater voice
(= $$$) that corporations exert on government than real persons are able
to. Have you heard that medical insurance corporations are justifying the
mega-millions they have spent on lobbying against health care reform on the
basis that "the spending reflects a commitment to making our voice heard"?
(Pfizer spokesperson Kristen Neese) Okay, Pfizer, you've got the
gargantuan representation, so you'd better accept the taxation!
Do you remember the time when corporations were taxed at a VASTLY higher
rate than they are now? And they did just fine! What do you s'pose the
difference is? Give you one guess: GREED!
I won't bother with your first paragraph, because it's so flaky it crumbles
at the least touch.
I can go to the polls on voting day, I don't have to worry about being threatened about who I have to vote for, I can have privacy in the voting booth, I can pick any idiot or any really effective person on the ballot, and no one intimidates me when I put the ballot in the little machine that whisks it away to be eventually counted.
As to thinking that what we are getting turns out not to be what we exactly want from those we vote for, well, that is the way the cookie crumbles. After all, if they pretend to have character and integrity and wind up having little or none, we can march back at voting time and throw the bum out.
Try that in the country where you obviously live and where you say your freedoms are fast disappearing.
Are you concerned that you have conclusions based on propaganda?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124182750646102...
here's the rest of the story...
"The organization, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or Acorn, is accused of paying canvassers only if they registered at least 20 voters per shift and providing bonuses of $5 for registering more than 21.
Under Nevada law, it is illegal to attach incentives to such work, in part because it encourages canvassers to submit fraudulent forms, Secretary of State Ross Miller said.
Acorn submitted 91,002 completed forms in Clark County, which includes Las Vegas, of which 23,186 turned out to be valid new voters who voted in November, according to data provided by Mr. Miller’s office.
Mr. Miller investigated Acorn at the behest of the Clark County registrar of voters, Larry Lomax, who noted a high number of forms turned in featuring the names of famous football players and cartoon characters.
“This is not a case of voter fraud, it’s a case of voter registration fraud,” Mr. Miller said. “I’m very confident that none of these fraudulent voter forms found their way into the voter registration rolls or to cast votes.” <snip>
Mr. Levenson said Acorn had fired both employees and has cooperated with investigators.
“This is in complete violation of Acorn national policy, and to indict us is a clear case of blaming the victim,” Mr. Levenson said. “We had an errant employee who violated our policy and he was ordered to stop.”"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/us/05acorn.html
If you employ people, it's your job to supervise them. You cannot claim ignorance of their actions. They admit their worker broke the law. It's an admission of guilt, and you're claiming it proves their innocence! How easily the sheep are led. It's amazing.
no, the employee who is guilty should be punished.
Should the owner of Blackwater be sent to jail?
duh! talk about sheep...
Personal responsibility, Alex - remember that?
"I was only following orders" just doesn't cut it.
Now Halliburton's a different story
making people sign contracts that they wouldn't be able to prosecute -
didn't let their employees face up to their own bad behavior and as a
company persecuted whistleblowers. They're bad on both counts.
and you compare ACORN to this kind of behavior? where are your morals?
a company that hired people who cheated them to get paid more or a
company that allowed rape then locked up the victim?
I want the people who made up registrations, to be paid more money, to
be fired and for the company to find another way to hire -and keep
honest- people who work with the poor.
I want the men who raped a woman to go to jail and for the company
that locked her up afterward and refused to accept responsibility to
be fined and to lose all it's contracts with the government.
(the prostitution thing is bs, and you know it - and I don't care
who's company it is...)
This is an evil organization. They are there to steal our money and use it for nefarious purposes. They stuff ballots for democrats. They take money so that the democrats can point to a need. They hand out money to buy support for democrats. It's wrong. Considering all the other evidence, it should be easy to prove that worker was doing the work Acorn wanted him to do.
Acorn workers called the police at several locations, turned them away
at others and made fun of them at still more.
The films were heavily edited, including cutting in funny outfits and
cutting out some of the comments.
THERE IS NO VOTER FRAUD BY ACORN!
good grief, you're worse than seamus - it was the Republicans that
have been found to remove Americans from the voter lists and keep them
from voting in several really nasty ways.
The real story is...
ACORN works with the poor
- you don't like the poor,
and as we can see here...
you think they have fewer
rights than you.
and ACORN should not have to defend themselves in the media so that
you can go find something else to bleet about.
nice backpeddaling there... no, they were edited not for time - but
for effect, not for truth - but for effect.
This was a hatchet job, and I hope the law takes it's pound of flesh
from these "journalists"
submitting fraudulent voter registrations is NOT voter fraud
I leave the fears, the paranoia, the hatred of card checks and ACORN to people like you.
And voter fraud is fine as long as it is for a Democrat.....
Or the storming of the recount center in Florida by Republican Party operatives in 2000?
you mean the Republican in CA who actually falsely changed registrations - or the Republicans who "caged" voters removing folks from the voting rolls based on returned mail, or in foreclosure, or...
Neither you nor the letter writer gave one logical, proveable item of where you and he have lost a freedom. So I ask you: WHAT freedoms are you losing? WHERE are the freedoms I enjoy not the same freedoms that you can enjoy (providing you are not jailed as I assume you are not).
WHAT verifiable proof do you have that can be seen by any logical intelligent person as a loss of freedom?
Stating that the WH is "loaded" with "marxist plans" is utterly without any standing or proof, other than your own bias. What, exactly, do you define as a Marxist? Where do you see specific and provable Marxist theory and action in the WH?
Just saying those words does not, in any reasonable stretch of the imagination, prove that the WH is pushing Marxist principles.
I am liberal in political preference up to a point, centerist in most things, and conservative in certain areas of social action. I always vote Democrat as I have found, over the 55 years I have been voting, they have the most points of view that coincide with how I want things politically and socially. My big exception was I ALWAYS voted for Warren Rudman, as I believe him to be a truly fine man.
Does that make me a member of the Marxist group? Do you see how narrow and constricted your viewpoint seems to me overall?
If you believe that we have a president in the WH who has "marxist plans" to "fundamentally transform this country" there is absolutely NO possibility of you and I having an honest, respectful discussion.
As to your not commenting again, that is up to you and of no concern to me. If you feel that these comment sections are only BS, then, of course, you should go elsewhere and to a place that agrees with your sentiments.
As to your seeing my comments as sarcasm, perhaps there is a tinge of it in them. However, when any American says that their freedoms are being lost and offers absolutely not one shred of evidence that is proveable to that claim, I have to believe that the person has not considered all the freedoms that HAVE NOT BEEN LOST as being important enough to mention. I thought it appropriate to enumerate some of the freedoms that I enjoy in this country and do not see as being lost to me in any way whatsoever.
All we get from Mr. Dunn or you is namelss, groundless Fear. You can hardly be in danger of having freedoms taken away from you when you have already taken them away from yourself. You've sold yourself out to the ultimate destroyer of freedom, reason and anything else of value.
Two things I do note. Mr. Dunn's letter predictably devolves back onto capitalism vs. socialism, with that insidious implication that captialism is THE American value. Your comment equates anything "left-wing" with the enemy.
You don't want attacks, you say. But be honest, whatis, what are you doing? And with what grounds?
reference to sajwert. What said was from me to you on the obvious fact of
your selling yourself out to Fear, ultimate destroyer of freedom, reason and
anything else of value.
Hey, a tree in the forest isn't a bad place to be, compared with the
subterranean darkness you inhabit. Chirrup, twitter.
And you have STILL failed to answer her/my question. All this other hissing and snarling from you is distraction from that simple fact.
"Candles" are often lit in the crypt of the dead. That kind of lugubrious light sure doesn't impress me. Such "illumination" serves only to prevent someone from stumbling into the corpse.
You said: " The WH is loaded with left-wing radicals with marxist plans to 'fundamentally transform this country.'". That's just not true. If you hate what's going on, why not just say it, owning up to your opinion and not trying to "scare" people in to thinking some dark forces are at work. Liberals and progressives are not plotting and planning - we are your fellow Americans with different views.
I remember a time - not that long ago during the Tip O'Neill days - where Republicans and Democrats disagreed but only the most radical demonized their opponents. Somehow, they found ways to work together and get stuff done. It's been going downhill for some time. I'm concerned where the bottom is . . . and who wants to play in that gutter.
If everyone can agree that there are serious challenges facing our nation, how would discounting half of the country and their ideas benefit anyone? We need both sides to get to the middle. If people start running to the edges of their "side", the middle gets further away. How can the Republican party get stronger if it continues to exclude and condemn it's own members? Conservative voices, thoughtful and inclusive conservative voices, are needed and welcomed. The Democratic Party has not rejected their own for either very conservative or very liberal perspectives. True, the diversity in the Democratic Party makes consensus a challenge but it ensures that the fringe doesn't come to dominate. When it comes to that moment in the voting booth, I have always voted the person and not the party. Sadly, as the Republican party radicalizes, my options are lessened.
I generally agree and respect posts from both of you.
However, , may I make a suggestion when your decide to respond to an overwrought poster, such as "whatistruth."
There are just some folks in this forum - such as the aforementioned "whatistruth" - who do not deserve a response to their rants.
So the next time you consider responding to such aforementioned characters, please click on the icon next to their handle and check out what that person posts and what sites that person posts to.
If you did that you would have found out that having a rational discussion with "whatistruth" would have been futile, since how could anyone who is an active poster to a fringe, paranoid and hate-filled website, such as "Frontpage" can ever expected to have an adult and proper perscpective on the real world?
Finally, this doesn't mean we should let these unhinged posters off of the hook, because we all well know that we have a significant handful "unhinged-heads" that are well-known for spreading falsehoods in this forum.
In the aforementioned example, I do not see any problem in responding to such posters and ripping their comments and "credibility" to shreds.
Cheers,
Mike
There are some posters that I don't read - ever. Nothing to learn. I do like reading some of the replies of people who take them on, tho.
Krugman has an interesting commentary on the fringe movement. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/opinion/09kru...
It resonated with me because I am concerned about the growing hostility and anger of the few and how it is celebrated by far right.
Over that last 40+ years that I've been a voter, I've seen some nasty politics but never anything like what's going on now. The wackiest of the far right want to take away freedoms - some at the point of a gun. Mr. Dunn and other mindless fear-mongers fan the flames. Like Mr. Krugman said, "The point is that the takeover of the Republican Party by the irrational right is no laughing matter. Something unprecedented is happening here — and it’s very bad for America."
I'm not overly technically savvy so was interested in the ability to click on the icon as you suggested to get a better viewpoint of the writer. Thank you very much for that tip.
I agree with you.
I find it most telling that whatistruth rails against radicals in the WH, but actually reads/supports Frontpage.
What is David Horowitz if he is not a radical? He has taken his radical past and transformed himself as a conservative activist. To me, he is one of the most dangerous men in America.
Turn off the T.V.
our freedom is not rapidly disappearing.
But after reading this letter, it's obvious that our common sense is rapidly disappearing.
My parents raised me to have pride in America, but it was difficult growing up. Whites were attacking blacks using a pole with the American Flag attached.
Politically connected rich people were avoiding the Vietnam draft by getting first into the Guard, while the sons of truck drivers and garbagemen were dying in Vietnam.
Capitalism has built a strong America, but corporations and rich people continue to avoid taxes by hiding their earnings in overseas banks, even after George Bush cut the highest brackets to 35%.
The accusations of "socialism" come from wacked out right wing propagandists and are repeated by the weak-minded brain-washed.
Where has our common sense disappeared to?
Ask Acorn if you want to learn how.
We should have to show real ID before voting, and we should have something in place to ensure that people are voting in multiple jurisdictions. Our elections are all frauds until we can make that happen. It cracks me up that we died people's fingers blue in Iraq to ensure there would be no improper results. Yet here.. we just ask for a persons' name and take them at their word. We even send groups like Acorn out to remind them to vote Democrat if they want more social handouts. Then they round up just the Democrat registered voters and drive them on over to the voting booths. Isn't it grand.
Bertrand Russell
Anatole France
If you are upset that we have politicians who would rather give away your hard earned dollars to those who sit and wait for the great American give away check twice a month I agree with you. But it is not those who run business that support increased taxes to pay for more entitlements.
I bet you voted straight democratic in the 2008 election. If you did you got taken for even more of your hard earned income.